C64 SID Shootout part 4. - SID 8580 vs. SwinSID Ultimate

Page has been updated with a nice music player, shouldn't any playback issue appear anymore \o/

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Had some time to make another comparison! This time I compared a 8580 (2288) to the very new, only prototype shaped SwinSID Ultimate.
Don't let it fool you, it doesn't look nice yet but who cares if the sound is great, right? I don't. The audio quality, replay and features are more important than the look.

It's sitting in a C64 E (469 REV B) board and is happy there. I'm thinking of keeping it there forever, first because it fits very tight and is tricky to insert/remove without hurting the legs. And then because I like the sound much so why should I remove it?

I don't really want to write about technical details and stuff, you can read more about it at ilesj.
Do it, read his article because it's great, however, there are no audio examples so I take it as a challenge to be the first to record, compare and release some audio material with the SwinSID U.

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I've chose some great demoscene tracks again - and only one game music -, tried to select some tricky tunes with good sound design and musicality to see how the SwinSID U performs in kinda extreme conditions.

Let's start with one of my favorite music that starts with one of the coolest car engine sound effect:

Necropolo - Cadmium - SID 8580 R5 2288

How cool is that sound, right? Necropolo bends the SID like it was his guitar, pushing the limits and making the SID bleed. Now here comes the SwinSID U version:

Necropolo - Cadmium - SwinSID Ultimate

Output volume is definitely lower but I must say, it's impressive how the SwinSID U reproduces the original sound. It's not 100% there but almost reaches it. The 8580 is a bit more beefy but basically that's it, the 2 are identicaly - and don't forget the fact that the SwinSID U is still an emulation

Let's jump to the next track:

David Whittaker - Lazy Jones subtune 1 - SID 8580 R5 2288

Not much to say, it's Lazy Jones. However, due to the special playroutine the previous version of the SwinSID had issues with it until CodeKiller's "lazyfix", and the Ultimate just says, "naah, I can take it":

David Whittaker - Lazy Jones subtune 1 - SwinSID Ultimate

Flawless victory.

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Let me interrupt the show with more fancy visualization of audio waveforms. I know, I know, this is my fetish.

The following screenshot is the side-by-side comparison of Cadmium on 8580 (upper) and SwinSID U (lower).

8580 looks a bit more sharp and spikey, SwinSID U is softer - now you can see it, not only hear. However, the waveform reproductions is awesome, it's as close as it can be. Just think about it, the SID is a kinda analog synthesizer and the SwinSID U is a digital replica. Impressive.

Lazy Jones waveform comparison, 8580 upper, SwinSID U lower:

Again, 8580 is a bit louder and sharper. The visual waveform differences are barely audible.

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Back to music comparison. How about a heavy metal track, written on a 6581 SID, played on a 8580?

Thomas Danko - Wonderland X intro - SID 8580 R5 2288

Awesome track, great sound design. And btw, great demo, you should watch it.

Thomas Danko - Wonderland X intro - SwinSID Ultimate

Quieter but similar sounding. Another flawless victory.

So far the SwinSID U did the job well, but I want digitized sounds. Ready?

Fanta - Coma Light XIII tune 4 - SID 8580 R5 2288

Funky track, we are Oxy. Clean digisound, no beeps, no cracks, just the clean digisound.

Fanta - Coma Light XIII tune 4 - SwinSID Ultimate

Let's play a game. Find the 10 differences between the original and this one. Send the result via email to me.

And the last track for today is another digitune:

Swallow - Fantasmolytic - SID 8580 R5 2288

This is a remake of Danko's popular demo-loader music, mixed and remixed by Swallow. Hardsync, digi sounds.

Swallow - Fantasmolytic - SwinSID Ultimate

Aaand, SwinSID U. A bit different, carrier signal is audible but it's not bad at all. It's not beeping all the time, only when the samples kick in. Still great, still sounds good.

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Conclusion:
SwinSID U is a great SID replacement. It's not 100% true to the original sound but I don't think it's even possible. There are many different methods to play - plus digi - music on the C64 that faithful emulation is technically nearly impossible. SwinSID U is softer than the original SID, maybe a bit of waveshaping could help but not really necessary. The audio quality is top notch and it has the mojo.
Well done Hermit and CodeKiller!

C64 SID shootout part 3.

Page has been updated with a nice music player, shouldn't any playback issue appear anymore \o/

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We used a music composed on 6581 SID for the previous test, so today we're gonna break the SID 6581 with a 8580 track. But first, let's start with a music that sounds kinda okayish on all SID.

Stellan 'Dane' Andersson - Break the Cycle. Played on a 8580 R5 first - as this supposed to be the SID revision the music was made on - then with 6581 revisions:

Clip 01. Dane - Break the Cycle - 8580 R5

It's a beautiful music, isn't it? Great instruments, nice melodies, a perfect track.


Clip 02. Dane - Break the Cycle - 6581 R2

Well, it obviously sounds different, especially the filter on the bass. Still, it's quite enjoyable.


Clip 03. Dane - Break the Cycle - 6581 R3

Thaaaaat background noise... 6581 R3 is definitely the worst SID version...


Clip 04. Dane - Break the Cycle - 6581 R4

Okayish, okayish, but...


Clip 05. Dane - Break the Cycle - 6581 R4AR

Better than R3 and R4 but not as good as R2 in my opinion.

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Let's go deeper and listen to another track, Jammer - Mr. Marvellous, composed on 8580 and broken on 6581.

Clip 01. Jammer - Mr. Marvellous - 8580 R5

Great, great track, awesome instruments and speech-a-like sounds. Jammer did a very good job with designing these sounds and pushing the SID into its limits.


Clip 02. Jammer - Mr. Marvellous - 6581 R2

Whoah... this is... like a completely different music. Poor 6581... Some instruments sound completely broken.


Clip 03. Jammer - Mr. Marvellous - 6581 R3

:( :( :( the intro is completely broken :( :( :( the instruments and melodies are broken :( :( :( and the background noise is ugly :( :( :(


Clip 04. Jammer - Mr. Marvellous - 6581 R4

Same as the previous but at least the bass in the middle part is beefy.


Clip 05. Jammer - Mr. Marvellous - 6581 R4AR

I can hear the intro part! At least a bit. The bass is nice, overall it sounds better than the other 6581's but it has nothing to do with the original 8580 version.

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Simon says let's go even deeper and break the cycle, I mean break the 6581! Jammer has some more awesome 8580 tracks, I'm curious how Club Style would sound.

Clip 01. Jammer - Club Style - 8580 R5

I just can't believe it how the SID is capable of doing these kind of sounds! Really awesome sound design, well done Jammer. The sidechain effect, the filter cutoff changes, the echoing lead. Just wow.


Clip 02. Jammer - Club Style - 6581 R2

Sounds like a completely different music. It's not a wonder, it's the difference between SID revisions. Jump to the next SID.


Clip 03. Jammer - Club Style - 6581 R3

I shall write something about this version but have no words to describe what I hear. Oh, did I mention the background noise of the R3?


Clip 04. Jammer - Club Style - 6581 R4

At least some of the instruments sound unique but the sidechain effect is still broken.


Clip 05. Jammer - Club Style - 6581 R4AR

Surprisingly, this version starts nice, keeps the okayish sounds and goes broken in the middle part. The distorted instruments at 2:00 sound kinda cool.

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It's time to go mad - if you are still reading and listening. The following tracks is by Jammer as well, called Club Stylier (no, it's not the same as the previous one). Have a listen to the original 8580 version then to the 6581's without further comments. Thank you for reading this looong long post, I hope you enjoyed it.
See you next time.


Clip 01. Jammer - Club Stylier - 8580 R5

Clip 02. Jammer - Club Stylier - 6581 R2

Clip 03. Jammer - Club Stylier - 6581 R3

Clip 04. Jammer - Club Stylier - 6581 R4

Clip 05. Jammer - Club Stylier - 6581 R4AR

C64 SID shootout part 2.

Page has been updated with a nice music player, shouldn't any playback issue appear anymore \o/

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Thank you for all the feedback! Looks like the previous post is a big success so I decided to add some more info and details about the shootout.

The recording chain was 3 C64, connected one-by-one to the input of a RME Babyface soundcard with RCA cable. Recorded with default loudness settings, all input faders were on 0dB. Obviously, there's not much to set on the C64, so the signal simply flew to the input of the soundcard.

Recording software was Adobe Audition 3.0.1 (the best Audition version of all :) ).

In case you were wondering, yes, all of the recordings are clipping a bit - this means the signals from the C64 were too hot but not _that_ much. I wanted to keep the original signal so I didn't limit/compress/lower the volume.

Loudness level is different for each SID, the recorded waveforms are also quite different:

I edited the recordings and chopped them to smaller parts to show the significant differences between the SID revisions. Play the audio previews and listen closely. Each preview plays the same part/melody and I switch between SIDs at even beats.

The order is obviously R2-R3-R4-R4AR-R5 :)

Clip 01:



The second and third part (R3 and R4) sound like the SID is pushed to its limit and it's hard to generate the flute-a-like sound.


Clip 02:



Here, the most significant difference is the snare drum instrument. It sounds quite different in each version.


Clip 03:




Different filtering on the bass. The most remarkable is the last one, which is the 8580 R5 version. The sound is more opened (higher filter cutoff and wider LFO) so the *wow*wow*wow* sounds different a lot.


Clip 04:



Again, the modulation on the filtered bass sounds different. Very. Different. Also, did you notice the loud background noise during the second section? That's the noise of the R3 SID.


Side-note #1:
I'm not 100% sure about the SID revisions I have. According to http://sid.kubarth.com/ my 6581 R2 1485 might not be R2 but R3. But still, it sounds so different to the real R3 1585 that I tend to believe it's a real R2.

Side-note #2:
Please follow this download link if you would like to download the audio files in .OGG format. Let me know if you would like to listen to the uncompressed .WAV files too.

Side-note #3:
Why .OGG compressed audio files? Because they sound better than .MP3's with the same compression rate and need less disk space. Also, for this test the compression doesn't take much information about frequencies, the difference between SID revisions is still well-audible.